Coming in December, a whole new site to represent the new F-450 class of road racing and also all things related to 450cc single cylincer racing. Keep posted!!
Hi, I've left comments before hoping that someone would get in touch - I would love to discuss this project with you, as I have over 25 years racing experience with at least 10 years on mono racers. I have just been looking at your recent photos on the blog - I notice that you have remounted the battery in front of the engine, I am interested to know what your weight distribution is? Front to back? It would be great if someone got in touch with me. Mike. www.mike-edwards.net
How does it work with the geometry? With shorter front forks and smaller circumference tires, are you changing anything about the rear linkage or shock to match? What's the rake and trail? What about swingarm?
Questions answered. 1. Will they handle, doesn’t a motocross bike have completely different geometry ? 54” (1393mm) wheel base 22.9 degrees of rake 98mm trail 22.8”(580mm) swing arm length 250 lbs These numbers are nearly identical to a 250 GP bike. So yes it will handle. 2. How do they ride ? Isn’t a motocross bike built completely different than a road racer ? Will it flex ? I’ll let Kevin Schwantz answer this question. "Yes, they actually handle, turn and brake just as a road racer should, just a blast to ride." Added Kevin Schwantz, "Properly set up, tweaked and a 60 bhp lump, just a great way to start racing.” Ultra Stiff twin spar aluminum frame and swing arm are built for abuse, crashing and thrashing as anyone who’s ever cased a triple knows. In road race trim they do the same job and do it just as well. Do you think Bubba’s bike flexes ? 3. Will the motors live ? This seems to be the biggest issue and concern. They ride and race them daily on tracks across the country in many different levels of tune in not only motocross but also desert racing and flat track. If restricted to only make a certain amount of HP (55 to 60) it seems it wouldn’t be a problem to get them to live. Where do I get the parts ? Ebay, junkyards and your friends garages if you looking to do it cheap and do it now. All thought this may not be the best in function it will get you on the track. This is basically how we built our YZF and KX 450’s. We robbed the Yamaha race shop for 600 parts and the Kawi guys sent us some take off parts from a crashed 600. Roland Sands Design will be working on kits including many of the parts needed to do the job which will soon be available through Performance Machine. Starting with the Yamaha and Honda first, but will soon have wheels, bodywork and foot control parts available for early 08. Other companies working on the project are Ohlins, Troy Lee, Dunlop tires, Aim instrument clusters, DID chains, Airtech, KandN airlfilters. A variety of parts will be available soon. Please be patient as these parts lines are in early development stages. We understand many people want to build them now, but as you can imagine, developing a product line for 6 brands of bikes that needs to be engineered and tested is a huge undertaking and can not be accomplished overnight. What does it cost ? The project can be looked at several ways. 1. Budget builder. Have a crashed 450 in your garage, you want to go road racing. Buy some Ebay parts, rob your friends, beg barrow and steal. Fabricate what you can your self, buy only what you need to get on the track. Approximate cost of $3000, depending on your building skill. Buy a used bike and parts and you’re around $8000. 2. Buy the best. Buy a new 450. Source out the best parts brand new and bolt them on. Better yet, buy an entire kit that leaves no question to what is needed to get a bike track ready. This is the easiest for self builders and would require only a day or two for a good mechanic to get a bike track ready. If only there was such a kit available. Approximate cost of $7000 plus a new bike has you at a cost of $13,000. 3. Buy a finished bike. There is not a bike in existence currently, but there may be soon. Cost of $15,000 or more for a very limited edition bike. Parts needed with approx. cost. Wheels Budget– Buy a sport bike wheel to match your forks for $100, Buy a rear supermoto wheel that doesn’t match for around $400 or use your existing super moto wheels if you have them. New - wheel set ($2000 to $2500 for RSD assault wheels or marchesini’s if you can get them) 17 x 3.5 17 x 4.25 to 5.5 depending on tires used. I prefer 250 GP slicks with 17 x 3.5 and 17 x 5.0 or 5.5 rear wheel Tires - $300, everybody’s has to buy tires. Front End Budget– Ebay, $300 for entire fork assembly, triples, brakes, master cylinder, damper, make sure they are straight. New - $ 2000 to $5000 Depending on what you buy and where you buy it Front disc, Brake caliper, Axle and spacers. , triple clamp and stem, stem nut, clip ons front master cylinder , brake line , steering dampener and mount (keep stock moto clutch, throttle, kill switch, start button) Rear Shock Budget– Approx $400 for modified lowered 1” stroke and re-valved for road racing New – $800 for an Ohlins with proper dampening (In development) Rear Sets Budget– Do it yourself. Buy from Ebay and fab up some mounts New – $300 – $600 2006 R1 spec rear sets with adapters and modified shift rod and shift lever Bodywork $1200 a set Tail section, upper and lower, front fender, windscreen, gas tank cover Utilize standard sub frame. Body work is in development and will be available through on Roland Sands Design Website soon. Body mounting Budget– Do it yourself. New – $500 Buy a set of hand built mounts, In development. Exhaust Budget– Do it yourself. New – approx. $500 Soon to be available Air Intake New - $40 KandN airfilter
First i would like to say thanks for getting this class started. I have been sing it's possibilities for a couple years and mostly to funny looks. I went to Roland's site and found no .pdf. Is there an other forum where people are hashing this out. It would seem that more information sharing is crucial right now. I am going to start building very soon and would like to know more about the rules.
Soon measn this month... holidays being what they are... Be patient and put the pieces together... the last bit you need is the suspension/specs and bodywork. we have several being built now, from converting an 06 Supermoto bike that already has Marcesinis, bremobos and slipper clutch - a good way to go - to brand new ones, just leaving the bodywork till last... the WERA series should be posted on www.wera.com
How is it that you "have several being built right now" when the rules haven't been made public? I understand that you are developing the specs but am I to understand that you are building actual race bikes?
I am making a street legal one and using honda rs125 fairing and tail. This is a very simple and pretty cheap project for a basic setup. Using adjustable gsxr forks and a 1 off shock from ebay. The bike already had a lighting coil and plate. Just need to figure right size sprockets for this bike.
It looks just as nice with the bodywork as it does without. Nice work. Will it be at he Javits Center for the NYC Show?
ReplyDeleteThis moto450 project is looking real good, keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteHi, I've left comments before hoping that someone would get in touch - I would love to discuss this project with you, as I have over 25 years racing experience with at least 10 years on mono racers.
ReplyDeleteI have just been looking at your recent photos on the blog - I notice that you have remounted the battery in front of the engine, I am interested to know what your weight distribution is? Front to back? It would be great if someone got in touch with me.
Mike.
www.mike-edwards.net
How does it work with the geometry?
ReplyDeleteWith shorter front forks and smaller circumference tires, are you changing anything about the rear linkage or shock to match?
What's the rake and trail? What about swingarm?
Don't forget about the Cannondale 450's. Them some sweet 450 fuel injected bikes that can keep up and pass.
ReplyDeletewww.rolandsands.com has a .pdf with all the tech specs, and some build suggestiont too. 22.9 degree rake, 98mm trail.
ReplyDeleteNow this class looks like it is is a goer, how is it going top proceed if the FIM changes the 450s to 350?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.crash.net/motorsport/moto-x/news/158301-0/ktm_welcomes_fim_vision.html
Matt
you can find this on rolandsands.com
ReplyDeleteQuestions answered.
1. Will they handle, doesn’t a motocross bike have completely different geometry ?
54” (1393mm) wheel base
22.9 degrees of rake
98mm trail
22.8”(580mm) swing arm length
250 lbs
These numbers are nearly identical to a 250 GP bike. So yes it will handle.
2. How do they ride ? Isn’t a motocross bike built completely different than a road
racer ? Will it flex ?
I’ll let Kevin Schwantz answer this question.
"Yes, they actually handle, turn and brake just as a road racer should, just a blast to ride."
Added Kevin Schwantz, "Properly set up, tweaked and a 60 bhp lump, just a great way to
start racing.”
Ultra Stiff twin spar aluminum frame and swing arm are built for abuse, crashing and
thrashing as anyone who’s ever cased a triple knows. In road race trim they do the same
job and do it just as well. Do you think Bubba’s bike flexes ?
3. Will the motors live ?
This seems to be the biggest issue and concern. They ride and race them daily on tracks
across the country in many different levels of tune in not only motocross but also desert
racing and flat track. If restricted to only make a certain amount of HP (55 to 60) it seems
it wouldn’t be a problem to get them to live.
Where do I get the parts ?
Ebay, junkyards and your friends garages if you looking to do it cheap and do it now. All
thought this may not be the best in function it will get you on the track. This is basically
how we built our YZF and KX 450’s. We robbed the Yamaha race shop for 600 parts and
the Kawi guys sent us some take off parts from a crashed 600.
Roland Sands Design will be working on kits including many of the parts needed to do
the job which will soon be available through Performance Machine. Starting with the
Yamaha and Honda first, but will soon have wheels, bodywork and foot control parts
available for early 08.
Other companies working on the project are Ohlins, Troy Lee, Dunlop tires, Aim
instrument clusters, DID chains, Airtech, KandN airlfilters. A variety of parts will be
available soon.
Please be patient as these parts lines are in early development stages. We understand
many people want to build them now, but as you can imagine, developing a product line
for 6 brands of bikes that needs to be engineered and tested is a huge undertaking and can
not be accomplished overnight.
What does it cost ?
The project can be looked at several ways.
1. Budget builder. Have a crashed 450 in your garage, you want to go road racing. Buy some
Ebay parts, rob your friends, beg barrow and steal. Fabricate what you can your self, buy only
what you need to get on the track. Approximate cost of $3000, depending on your building
skill. Buy a used bike and parts and you’re around $8000.
2. Buy the best. Buy a new 450. Source out the best parts brand new and bolt them on. Better
yet, buy an entire kit that leaves no question to what is needed to get a bike track ready. This is
the easiest for self builders and would require only a day or two for a good mechanic to get a bike
track ready. If only there was such a kit available. Approximate cost of $7000 plus a new bike
has you at a cost of $13,000.
3. Buy a finished bike. There is not a bike in existence currently, but there may be soon.
Cost of $15,000 or more for a very limited edition bike.
Parts needed with approx. cost.
Wheels
Budget– Buy a sport bike wheel to match your forks for $100, Buy a rear supermoto wheel that
doesn’t match for around $400 or use your existing super moto wheels if you have them.
New - wheel set ($2000 to $2500 for RSD assault wheels or marchesini’s if you can get them)
17 x 3.5
17 x 4.25 to 5.5 depending on tires used.
I prefer 250 GP slicks with 17 x 3.5 and 17 x 5.0 or 5.5 rear wheel
Tires - $300, everybody’s has to buy tires.
Front End
Budget– Ebay, $300 for entire fork assembly, triples, brakes, master cylinder, damper, make
sure they are straight.
New - $ 2000 to $5000 Depending on what you buy and where you buy it
Front disc, Brake caliper, Axle and spacers. , triple clamp and stem, stem nut, clip ons
front master cylinder , brake line , steering dampener and mount
(keep stock moto clutch, throttle, kill switch, start button)
Rear Shock
Budget– Approx $400 for modified lowered 1” stroke and re-valved for road racing
New – $800 for an Ohlins with proper dampening (In development)
Rear Sets
Budget– Do it yourself. Buy from Ebay and fab up some mounts
New – $300 – $600 2006 R1 spec rear sets with adapters and modified shift rod and shift lever
Bodywork
$1200 a set
Tail section, upper and lower, front fender, windscreen, gas tank cover
Utilize standard sub frame. Body work is in development and will be available through on Roland
Sands Design Website soon.
Body mounting
Budget– Do it yourself.
New – $500 Buy a set of hand built mounts, In development.
Exhaust
Budget– Do it yourself.
New – approx. $500 Soon to be available
Air Intake
New - $40 KandN airfilter
First i would like to say thanks for getting this class started. I have been sing it's possibilities for a couple years and mostly to funny looks.
ReplyDeleteI went to Roland's site and found no .pdf. Is there an other forum where people are hashing this out. It would seem that more information sharing is crucial right now. I am going to start building very soon and would like to know more about the rules.
[First off, this site will convert to a website soon.]
ReplyDeleteWhat's the definition of soon?
Soon measn this month... holidays being what they are... Be patient and put the pieces together... the last bit you need is the suspension/specs and bodywork. we have several being built now, from converting an 06 Supermoto bike that already has Marcesinis, bremobos and slipper clutch - a good way to go - to brand new ones, just leaving the bodywork till last... the WERA series should be posted on www.wera.com
ReplyDeleteSuper Cool ! A Super Mono Class.
ReplyDeleteI am working on a Hyosung 450 for this class
How is it that you "have several being built right now" when the rules haven't been made public? I understand that you are developing the specs but am I to understand that you are building actual race bikes?
ReplyDeleteI am making a street legal one and using honda rs125 fairing and tail. This is a very simple and pretty cheap project for a basic setup. Using adjustable gsxr forks and a 1 off shock from ebay. The bike already had a lighting coil and plate. Just need to figure right size sprockets for this bike.
ReplyDeleteWTF?!?!? Wasn't this supposed to be a web site a month ago?!?!?
ReplyDeleteHow are we to go about buying these things with out it?