I just read the slagging my F-450 concept got in various media lately this week since the DMG announcement that F-450 IS a Defacto road racing class, so here is my response personally... I am not going to write a letter to said media again as it is not worth it and I am tired of spending my time and money trying to make a difference... Anyone would think I am the Devil incarnate and F-450 is my chariot of fire, I think the gun is pointed in the wrong direction.
To say I am disappointed is putting it mildly as I always try to talk to openly to the Press... What hurts is that some so called sources who claim a top rider throws his engines away on a regular basis, should probably find a new mechanic! Talk to Dave Joy at Troy Lee, there hasn't been a motor blow at a Supermoto National since who knows when, currently Cassidy Anderson has 40 hours on his practice bike! Lets be objective, I am not going to get into a pissing contest any more as I am over trying to make a difference, the Sport and everyone inside a hospitality tent or hiding behind a phony resume called A Nonnymouse! It is all very sad really but fortunately there are some fans and young racers successfully racing them including the ones I have. None have blown up including Gavin Jr's '06 CRF, that did two years racing Supermoto and with just a Cylinder head rebuild, ran all last year giving Tyler Odom the National Number One plate at the AMA Nationals in Mid Ohio - and it is still going strong!, so let's talk about this a year from now. Long live 450cc racers, purpose built to race, not street bikes converted and probably the biggest plus for the future of motorcycle racing stars ever, from Supercross, Motocross, Supermoto, Baja, Dakar, Flat Track and now road racing. So 'Tally Ho the Fox" and the devil - me on a 450 apparently - take the hindmost!
Nothing like having a bully pulpit to push an agenda with reference to the plethora of Forum negativity toward the F-450 concept recently announced by DMG. Whatever you think of the current state of the Sport and it's Government, they actually got up and DID something, it remains to be seen on it's execution, but it is a start!! If the some of the naysayers were so altruistic, how about just being objective and at least supporting the concept. No we are not trying to get rid of two strokes, unfortunately time will take care of that. F-450 is a separate category with four stroke torque and a power weight ratio of 250 lbs ‘wet’ and 55hp at the rear wheel standard, plus you don’t have to be 5’, 110lbs and Spanish to fit on one. Forums and blogs tend to attract negativity, it is up to the sport to at least support ideas without ambiguity. Ripsoli’s comment on 450s on the mile getting stressed out is that a) his son did compete and finished, the fastest one would have qualified 20th for the Twins class. Also at the Duquoin half mile the following week, a 450 qualified FOURTH fastest relative to the Harley V-Twins class and finally, the analogy of stressing the motor, a 450 on a mile dirt in a 20 lap race, is akin to running a road racer ‘pinned’ on a 20 mile long straightaway!!! And they still survived! As they do pinned for eight hours at an average of 50mph winning the Baja 500. Same bike, same frame, same motor.
Incidentally I do buy the magazines and read the websites regularly and have much respect for those that promote new ideas, as I have going back to the first Superbike race I ran at Laguna Seca in 1973 at the same time publishing Motorcycle Weekly with my old partner Bruce Cox!! I have probably spent way too much money, time and effort in an effort to promote something new and affordable. The new fuel injected bikes we have built and run, really do work and also are easy to maintain. Go to Glen Helen for a Saturday Motocross and see a 16 year old with girl friend roll of his YZF 450, race all day and go home, just gas and chain adjustment, no mechanic or team manager. Ask Tyler Odom’s team about longevity and you will get a different answer, also Elena Myers has been chasing the SV Twins boys on an ’09 Kawasaki to good effect and it has not blown up!! High side one unlike 400lbs of 600, fix the bodywork and do the next heat, the frame is built to jump 150’! Give love a chance as John Lennon sang, at least ask those who build them and for goodness sake, keep an open mind. Plant an Acorn and grow and Oak Tree!
Without more young participants migrating from the physical rigors of motocross or persuading Dad’s to give their kids a shot at ‘swerving’ minus much of the perceived high speed risks, there will be fewer stars of tomorrow… No Little League, not Major League! We need more ‘Acorns’! In this age of financial meltdown and negativity, we need some positive vibes and it is very tiresome and depressing, to have to fight so hard to prove a concept. Remember, make the rules from the grandstands inwards, not the pit lane outwards, as it is now incumbent for the fans to foot the bill in this economy for the future of race facilities and racing, with the advent of departing Sponsorship dollars. The days of VIP passes, OEM sponsored teams and events, and motor homes with caution tape strung around the hospitality tent, are dwindling. Support for the life blood of the sport IS the paid admission ticket with a show that includes something other than a ‘Super’ something, that sounds different, has Brand ID, can read the number plates and bangs bars! This is after all ‘entertainment’, without the stage and the attraction of the performers, there is no show – Rock and Roll or Road Racing!
I rarely get into this public debate and will probably regret writing this, but I have achieved everything I need to prove, other than watching a great sport spiral downhill without innovation and a refreshing embrace of Gen X/Y, plus the inclusion of the female persuasion that in case anyone has missed it, represents 50% of the populace – Go get ‘em Ashley Fiolek, Elena Myers and Melissa Paris! … This is only part of a possible solution and as a friend of mine joked darkly about my crusade, ‘now back to curing cancer!’ And retirement again!
Gavin Trippe (The Gavinator)
www.450moto.com
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16 comments:
Way to tell them, finaly someone with some guts to take the challenge and defend it. Wonder if any of the bloggers/journo's in their caves have ever look at one, ridden one or even talked to someone that has. I doubt it, Go F-450 and let's see what happens! Racked Motocrosser thinking of som asphalt in the future.
I've followed this from the beginning and can't understand the naysayers... I happened to see Elena Myers at Thunder Hill AFM race and that Kawi and her hauled butt not to mention sounding great. It looks like a factory racer and goes like one. I'm sold..
Ex four pot track day racer
Affordable, Safe, Fun. What better way to get started in road racing? F-450 is an excellent plateform that will bring new blood to the sport. As a race promoter in the 70's Gavin envisioned the future. He got it right then and he has it right now. This is a much smarter place to get acquainted with road racing than any 600cc machine. I wonder how many times Dad can afford to repair Jr's 600 after he throws it away at 120 in turn 6... Wonder how long Mom will allow the family to stay engaged in RR after a few trips to the ER? Skills are developed, and speed is relative. F-450 is a fantastic platform to attract new blood to the sport of roadracing. Guess, what? The aftermarket will come too and the sport needs that! Right on Gavin!
Bob Weber
Fullerton, CA
I really like the F-450 concept! Of course it's not perfect, but it sounds like a lot fun. I'd like to see a 450cc GP class that replaces the two-stroke 125cc. Hot-rodded MX/SuMo motors in lightweight GP-chassis. 70HP vs. max. 210lbs. that would be a perfect stepstone for Moto2 and MotoGP.
Aloha from Germany!
The silent majority will rise up... at the end of the day, just as in Washington and Sacramento, the people will force changes, but sometimes change is hard to accept. Thanks for your support.
Gavin, it's great to see this coming to life. The 450 MX'ers are such great bikes. On the dirt track side we have been using them for several years. This season we are required to run the OEM frames and the races have been great. I see some are worried about the engine life. I have raced a 450 on the mile WFO for 25 laps, no problems.
Can you brake one - yes. They are a manufactured race bike and when you modify it you are flirting with the balance between engine life and horsepower. As in any race bike, drag to enduro, turners will need to find the perfect balance.
Why would I care about this being a dirt tracker and being too old to race this new road race class? I'm looking further into the future......the ultimate series.....a true Grand National Champion. Dirt track, MX, Super Moto, Road Race, all on the same motorcycle. Maybe dreaming, maybe someday.
JR Schnabel #33
Thanks JR.... a different perspective and obviously stock frames are proving as fast as 'Ffamers' and more cost effective, which is what this is all about... Good luck at X Games Aug 1st, good to see a Flat Track guy out there, remeber OB, Springer and 750 Harleys were in the thick of the original Superbikers!!
I am the builder of the Kawasaki 450's. have been racing single cylinder motorcycles for over 20 years. I read about the 450's on the AFM Forum 2 years ago and wanted to build another single and the Kawi's were born. I first built the KLX,it is a blast to ride. Then I built the KXF. The KXF has proven itself very well and Yes it has NOT broke!! The KXF is faster and more of a true racer then the KLX. I have rode the KLX at many track days and raced the KLX for several months--it still goes very well. I even Drag raced it recently and beat a Buell XB 1200 Lighting. I designed and built the parts with the help of the College of the Redwoods @redwoods.edu. I built these bikes fun. Max AFM #35
I felt compelled to send you a letter regarding our super single 450 bike (CF-450). I purchased a 2009 Honda 450. We rode this bike over the winter for ice racing which is quite hard on bikes to begin with. In spring we decided to convert our bike in to a road racer. We did go a bit over the top with ours but the bike has been great. The first race my son rode the bike at was a CCS race at Road America. He did the full practice day as well as rode the bike in two different race's on Friday as well as two on Saturday. The bike rode well and worked great. We went back to Road America and did another Thursday track day before the AMA race there. Again the bike ran fine. This past weekend my son rode the bike once again but this time at Heartland Park in Topeka, KS We ran all day practice on the Thursday and rode the bike in three different races. Ultra Lightweight as well as Lightweight Super Bike and GT lights. Once again the bike worked great. We are off to New Jersey next week with the bike for another race weekend. At present all we have done to the bike is wash and clean the bike as well as change the oil/transmission fluid after each race. To this point the bike has been great like all the other Honda's we have owned. As far as upgrades to the bike for racing we have done the following. A power commander, A FMF Exhaust system and a Hinson slipper clutch. We have the left the motor completely stock.
The reason for us building the bike is simple my son currently rides a Honda RS-125 as well as a MD-250 both in the USGPRU as well as CCS. As a father I would love to but him a a 600 but as a parent I feel that it is quite a big jump from a RS-125 or a MD-250 to jump on a 600. But with a middle of the road 50 to 55 horsepower bike he can learn more and have a feel of a bit heavier bike before riding a 400 pound bike with 100 horsepower.
I do see other young kids at the races and yes some have done well on the 600 but also there are several that have struggled on them. The F- 450 is a bit more of a steeping stone I feel for young kids to move to before a 600.
I can tell you that each time we get the bike out people want to stop and talk about it and ask about building one. The project was also fun for my son and I to work on along with my sons uncle who also put quite a bit of work into the project. As for 2010 we look forward to running the bike in the 450 class in the USGPRU as well as other classes and would also run it in the AMA rounds if we could. The whole concept of taking a 450 bike of any brand and turning into a road race bike is fun and you can put as much or as little into the bike as you want and yes when we are done we can e-bay the parts that we purchased as well as put the bike back to stock and sell it if we want. All I can say is that we have built this bike to race and we are doing this and the bike does perform as expected and beyond and yes it might only be 50 HP but my son is learning more each time it takes it out on the track. This past winter he also was asked by Martin Conway to ride his Super Single bike at several track's to see what he had thought of the bike and to give some feed back on suspension and how the bike handled. He was able to ride a Suzuki 450 bike at Laguna as well as Fontana and Las Vegas again after some feed back from Martin and the folks at Race Tech the bike performed as promised. So in closing all I can say from our end is my son has but quite a bit of time on F-450cc MX type bike this year and they have worked and performed as advertised and we have yet to have a problem.
Thank you Allen P Hansen and Son Chris!
DeFacto 450 – blind corner?
Sure, kids need a way in and 16–21 year-olds could use an easy path to get on pavement. But, does the format deserve relegating to little more than a training bra - profitable for a designated supplier? The idea, it seems, should be to provide an affordable way for privateer builders to use their skill set to field make/model identifiable bikes with blueprint production engine/frame/suspension/brakes and just enough allowed in the way of accessory tires/wheels/skin to make them road racers. And, likewise, to be the affordable gateway to new riders – not just kinder – into the limelight.
Given the generous frame dimensions, there’s a virtual guarantee the rider doesn’t have to be Willie Shoemaker or sixteen years old. (hint, hint – a weight minimum is a good idea, but a starting grid weight handicap is a better one – fat guys can race, too!) Given the mechanical near parity of class across at least five manufacturers (with the prospect of more), a nice inventory of core stock (with the prospect of more!!), and reason (not rationalization) based specs, the adept privateer is more than just grid-filling cannon fodder. This speaks to who participates and who’s welcome.
In terms of who watches, consider the prospect of someone identifiable riding a recognizable bike, not a future-famous flyer on a mega-bucks bit of unobtanium. It’s attractive and marketable. It will sell beer in the stands and on TV. It also might sell me into fixing a 450 to replace my streetwise ex-desert 650 thumper. There are a lot of us. Doubt it? Well, poll the thumper ranks, vintage and current. Or look around you on your daily commute. Thumpers are how a lot of scooter people graduate to a motorcycle – or at least aspire to do so. Thumpers are how a lot of people get around.
So, why not put the kindergarten out with the crowd? They won’t bite, and the kids will learn plenty. Hell, they’ll probably win. The manufacturer money will certainly find its way in as contingency and reduced cost for spares/replacement. The kids will find competitive rides and move into higher pro ranks. Consumer product sponsors will find their faces. And the audience (there will be one!) will love it. They may even stick around for your superstars. Lord knows, right now, that’s a “so what?” for most who would come aboard.
"Combining close competition with affordable equipment provides a win-win situation for fans and riders alike," said AMA Pro Racing President Roger Edmondson. – RIGHT!
"The parity in performance brought with a single manufacturer and tuner puts America's young talent at center stage and helps them to refine their riding skills for advancement through the ranks." - WRONG! (pretty much says their only hope is uber-pro status – and that privateer builders don’t belong)
“The new class would borrow from Gavin Trippe's inspiration of repurposing the large, readily-available pool of 450cc four-stroke dirtbikes present in America for entry-level road racing competition.” – WELL… what Trippe said was that a lot of people would get into road racing and progress to high levels of proficiency by this route and he’s right.
Just think about what folks with an affinity for enduro, moto, flat track, supermoto, and roadracing get in transfer effect – one identifiable motorcycle to cheer for in four sports and proof that someone other than the elite factory teams has a place there. It’s not as amateurish as the elite would make it. And it would make our sport grow.
AMA Pro is cornering itself yet again, all for lack of imagination. Can you say “side-valve 45”?
Hi Gavin,
Like I said, If you don’t rev them up and just use the stock rev limit it will work. I’m sure if you try for big HP, without a limiter, you will run into problems but as JR said we ran them hard and long on the Dirt tracks with pretty good success 2 national singles championships with Jake Johnson on our RMZ450!
P.S. Slipper clutch so when they back shift it won’t rev to high also.
Thanks,
Pat Alexander
American Suzuki Motor Corp.
Sports Promotion Mgr.
________________________________________
I think Malcom Smith and every other Baja regular will confirm currrent said 450cc Single reliability. My understanding is that Honda has been running out of the box, standard motors down there, with remarkable reliability, considering the severity of the conditions and duty cycle involved.
I'd chime in but nobody knows me from Adam. Pikes Peak hillclimbers also encounter far more severe conditions than a roadracer would, hear anyone complaining? Seriously!
Sent from my iPhone
Don't demean yourself Mike, I know who you are and so should everyone else, as the guy who stepped up as Catalyst Racing and developed the current bodywork for me. Ever a true enthusiast and Vintage racer, one of many silent supporters of the cause.
Regarding Baja, I have personally asked Johnny Campbell about all the Baja 1000 races he has won and was astounded when he told me how stock those Honda motors are. Over 1,000 miles in 20 Hours? You kiddin me? Not even an extra oil cooler!
Keep up the good work Gavin. I converted mine and these bikes are a blast.
I just ran my WR450 at summit (Roger Lyle track day). It was by far the most fun i have had on a motorbike in a very long time. i had been running 128s on a FZR400, but I did a bunch of 125.5 on my nice little light WR450.
Coming from GSXRs and FZR400s, my 450 brakes like nothing i have ever ridden before. It also carries way more corner speed than i was used to and will squirt right out of the corners with all the torque it has.
It is currently just a track day bike, but i hope to run clubman next year.
Regards.
It seems that anyone who thinks this is a bad idea, that won't work has never done a Supermono search on the Internet. Those whacky Euros have been doing something similair for years. Does no one remember the Ducati Supermono of the 90's? I have just started the conversion of a freshly aquired 2000 Yamaha WR400. Not as new or cool as the modern bikes, but it is street licenced here is CA, and it will become a road burning Formula 400 machine as Ebay spits up the bit and pieces. This machine will be perfect for the roads above Malibu. I just wish this would become a proper professonal series with a factory backed program. The DMG idea is fine for beginners, but there are creative people that could use an outlet in a racing series to show to stuff. Anyway I think it's a great idea Gavin, and I've said as much to anyone that will listen. Now if we could just get the manufacturers to build a street legal 450 street bike to begin with.
Andy Reid
Thousand Oaks,CA
I've loved this concept ever since I saw a Tigcraft frame with a yzf426 motor bolted in. The guy was running all rs125 bits and it was crazy fast. He was winning like crazy, and I never saw a wrench in his hand. Meanwhile, I was riding a rs125 and constantly had the top end off, unsticking piston rings, or replacing parts. Not fun! Getting the jetting just right was a nightmare, plus there was always the threat looming like a black cloud in the back of my mind of running it too lean and seizing the motor.
One thing I would suggest - there are lots of folks that want to see this succeed, and you are doing an amazing job of pushing it forward. You may consider recruiting more folks to help this cause. I for one would get involved to help, but I don't know where to get started, other than throw down for a bike and all the bits. I'm not ready for that commitment, but still want to see this go somewhere. Where do you need help? What is your schedule for showing up at track days? How can someone that is interested ride one? Maybe talk to Keith Code, or someone with a school and figure out how to get a class around them? I would jump at the chance to take a roadracing 101 class on a F450! I think you are doing a great job, but you can get other folks involved and get support from every angle.
I remember going to track days with my rs125 and having an absolute blast going around the ducatis and R1s on the outside of turns. They would reel you in on the straights, but then I would end up out-braking them or pass them in the corners. It was MAD fun. But, not unlike your "push back", no one understood how much fun it was. I learned way more about find the right line, conserving speed, going faster in the corners on the 125 than I ever did on my zx6 or my SV650. Make it easy for people to experience it. I know - easier said than done. Keep it up tough, we need this.
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